My wifes hard work lobbying is finally paying off

The following is a copy of my wife’s blog at Friendburst, detailing the developments in her lobbying efforts towards protecting children from sexual abusers on and offline:
April’s Law Hearing Re-Cap
2011-10-22 at 02:17 am BlogBlog RSSRSS Subscribe
3
Lika
LikaPika
I went to Madison this morning to speak at the hearing. The Wisconsin Eye TV, at www.wiseye.org covered the meeting, and call me weird, I actually liked going to this. It was interesting. When the link is ready, I will post it to share.
It was kind of a crazy morning, because I’d stayed up to ensure driving time. (I work 2nd shift, and so normally I’d go to bed around 4am, but I needed to leave around 6:15AM). I gathered my stuff up, made sure I had enough spare time, and left at 6, to gas up and get coffee. I made it with plenty of time to spare, took a couple pictures, and went in.
I got to meet the woman behind the phone and emails through Rep. Mason’s office, and got situated up in the meeting room. I had my business cards, written testimony, notes from online supporters all to pass out… Just to realize, I forgot my note cards I had my speech written on… was left in the car. Mind you, this building is not the easiest to navigate, and so I figured well, I’ll just have to wing it.
Two other people came to talk about this, and they had interesting takes. The first guy, from CASA? I didn’t catch his organization, but I’m assuming it’s the Court Appointed Special Advocates or something along that line…
He talked about how he’s concerned that the higher sentencing would affect how many sex offenders would actually be convicted, and what not, and spoke of “unintentional consequences”. where a grandfather “inappropriately touches” his grand-daughter, and how the mother, the sandwich between her father and daughter would feel, or say if she has a son and daughter from two different fathers, and the half siblings situation where she wouldn’t want her own child to spend life w/o parole…
This guy was just saying how it’s the “perfect victims” who get the convictions against their perpetrators, and some perpetrators may not get a conviction because they have a sympathetic perpetrator. The victim may be acting in some way or wearing something…
Thing is, I don’t know about any one else. But, if my parent sexually abuses my child, I am NOT going to tell my child to quiet down to protect my parent. No. As for the sibling situation, good or bad, doesn’t necessarily count as the child predator stance April’s Law is looking at.
Next, an area DA talked, and supports the life w/o parole for those perpetrators who rape our children and then kill them. In that instance, she loves that idea, and spoke for the profession. While she was for raising the minimums and catching “the bad guys”, she wasn’t sure if this was the best way to think about it.
I think even the guy was wanting to get the bad guys, and the committee will be looking to form another study committee made up of legal professionals and others in the field to take a closer look at the situation and what not. That was actually a cool thing, even though that means that it will take that much longer to pass April’s Law. BUT, it also means that it has the chance to make the most sense possible, with input from those in the field, and while it may not be as harsh, will maybe broaden the scope.
I was impressed with Rep. Bob Turner, he really pushed to say that our children are the most helpless, and we MUST, at all cost, protect them. And he was VERY vocal about that.
Lastly, I was up to talk in favor of AB-136. I thanked them for their time, and let them know that the various studies show on average that 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys will be sexually assaulted by the time they are 18. I reminded them that back in 1993, a bill affectionately dubbed the “miniskirt” bill was passed to say that the attire of the rape victim shall not be used as evidence against the victim in the court of law. They were surprised. Well, I helped pass it…
You will be able to view my speech, and I think I did pretty well, and even winging it, that I felt I talked TO them, rather than AT them, and Rep. Turner thanked me for my advocacy for the children. Maybe I was supposed to leave my speech cards back…
Thanks for all of your support, and I’ll post the link here to the hearing when it comes through. Until then, peace out!
update:
The video is up, and you may or may not have to sign an agreement form to view the video.
View the video: http://www.wiseye.org/Programming/VideoArchive/EventDetail.aspx?evhdid=5330
Anyway, AB-136 starts about 15 minutes in, and lasts about 35 minutes. I’m the last 7 – 8 minutes. That was w/o my premade speech notes. Not bad for winging the whole thing.
If you don’t have the latest microsoft silverlight video, you will be prompted to do it to be able to view the video. Just remember, April’s Law is AB-136, and starts about 15 minutes in, and lasts about 35-40 minutes. I’m the last one talking. I really liked Emily Thompson from the District Attorney’s Association. Even though the other guy is from the Coalition Against Sexual Assault, I thought in some ways he came across as a pedophile sympathizer, though he was a bit wishy washy and wanted to support it on one hand, but…

Racefan booted for good

Tonight while scanning the JT blogs, I came across 2 Brnts blog:
http://my.journaltimes.com/post/2brnt2b/blog/he_just_cant_help_it.html
Now in my blog about Racefan being banned, I promised I would keep an eye to see if he decided to come back under a different name so I could report him.
There was a person who has been putting their 2 cents in just recently and was acting too secure in their "newness" to the blogs.
That raised my eyebrows.
So I asked Lika to check the IP of the following person because I suspected it probably IS Racefan:

Posted by: ConServWisdom on July 22, 2011 8:31AM CST I believe that these PolitFacts are need to have a fair debate: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/jul/20/club-growth/club-growth-wisconsin-ad-says-senate-recall-candid/ http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/jul/17/donna-seidel/wisconsin-rep-donna-seidel-says-290-million-struct/ http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/jul/14/shelly-moore/democratic-candidate-shelly-moore-says-sen-sheila-/

Indeed, it was a MATCH!!!!
Racefan and ConServWisdom are both IP number: 198.176.247.51
To verify just WHAT account he could be going under, I clicked on his name to view his profile.
I got the infamous 404 page not found error.
So, this meant that ConServWisdom's account was erased by the JT.
Using my deductive reasoning, I knew that Racefan still had his Racefan48 profile available.
So I did a google check on his profile under the 48 name....guess what?
It also came up as 404 page not found error.
So then, just to satisfy myself that he is PERMANENTLY banned...I checked his Racefan17 profile:  404 page not found error.
So by breaking the TOS:
http://www.journaltimes.com/app/about/terms_of_use.php  
"What to do if your account has been banned: If you try to login and receive a message that you've been banned, do not immediately open another user account. Such action could result in a permanent ban. Instead, contact an administrator and find out what caused the sanction. We may or may not reinstate your privileges after such a contact. " 

Racefan is NOW permanently banned hence why his Racefan17 page didn't just read "this profile is private"
While I was at it, I did an IP trace and found out just where his provider is located:

IP Address:	198.176.247.51
IP Host:	umbfw.umb.com
Find IP Address Location for 'My IP' 198.176.247.51
Continent:	North America (NA)
Country:	United States   (US)
State:	Missouri
City:	Independence
Area Code:	816
Metro Code:	616
ISP:	UMB Bank, NA
Organization:	UMB Bank, NA
Time zone:	America/New_York
IP Address Lookup related for 'My IP' 198.176.247.51
Continent Lat/Lon:	46.07305 / -100.546
Country Lat/Lon:	38 / -98
City Lat/Lon:	(39.1029) / (-94.3826)
IP Language:	English
IP Currency:	United States dollar($) (USD)

Get that?  Missouri!!! 
He already admitted he worked in a bank recently and notice the ISP is UMB Bank.
The following map shows all UMB bank locations:


The dots are the locations of the UMB banks:
http://umb.know-where.com/umb/
Notice NO UMB banks EXIST at all in Wisconsin.
With the evidence provided, we must have to conclude that he lives in Missouri to be using a Missouri banks ISP (where he works at)
You know what they say about DUMB Missourians!!!
They have to ask you to "Show Me" and it looks like the JT and my investigation,  just "showed him!!"  lol
We also have to remember how many times he went against Granny Grits saying she has no right to comment about Wisconsin affairs when she is in Florida!!!
Well, same goes for him!!!
He has NO right to talk about Walker, wear his pic as an avatar, nor ANYTHING That is exclusively Wisconsin related!!
He can worry about legislation in his OWN state where incest is the hot topic.
I wont claim victory for his deletion BUT I DID report him 2 days before he was banned for what he was saying in Lika's blog. Whether or not that is the reason he is banned, I have no idea.
If it was, then I am ecstatic because he fully DESERVED a permanent ban for getting sexually insulting towards me and others.
His behavior in the forums was intolerable.
Look in my blog here about when he was first banned and he left a comment to me that he was going to be back "strong as ever" and that I would be STILL permanently banned.

hahahahahahaha!!!!
Now you're right here with me Racefan...enjoy it while you get to witness Obama be re-elected AGAIN and you wont be able to voice your displeasure about it.
Oh, and some advice Racefan....(I do think you will be reading this blog)...dont even TRY to fool the JT with other new names.
Its automated for their computers to show when a banned IP tries to re-add another profile...the same way it kept catching ME.
Have a great life OFF of the JT, Racefan!!!

owning JT conservatives

Indeed:

The following comments do not show compassion and in fact go far the other direction:

Hmmmm, but others would disagree with Buttonboys good intentions:

ah!! but then Buttonboy has a change of heart and jumps on the bandwagon:

Posted by: racefan48 on June 2, 2011 9:11AM CST Darn why aren't the liberal hacks chiming in about this. Lika should be all over this pervert and denouncement him. Or just maybe tey are all going to Milwaukee this weekend for the Dem Convention to cheer the Weiner on. That speech he will give will be a hot and horny talk

Posted by: ButtonBoy on June 2, 2011 9:43AM CST They're probably out dumpster diving for groceries now that The Pig doesn't have those half-spoiled food carts at bargain basement prices.

Then we see the following pic as Maurices Blog avatar:

Posted by: roadmixer on June 6, 2011 9:53PM CST OK so tell us, why that pic. are you trying to tell us something.? did you adopt? it seems like you have it for getting attention. was that pic on your sign in madision. i would haved called MARY L instead of driving. US conservatives like to conserve.

Ummmm, easy to see, isn't it?
Your words were NOT subtle.

MC claims that I am trying to run Conservatives out of here, but we all know the truth.
The following is the truth:

with comments like the following, the Conservatives attempt to do just what Racefan suggested:


Racefan attempts to mute Maurice with strong language that breaks TOS:

Racefan is oblivious to what he is saying:

Another crude comment dangerously close to TOS violation and MC's denial that when he says my name in a blog, its ethically his responsibility to expect my rebuttal:

and as if that isn't enough crude remarks:

and he was in MY blog and I had only answered to him because his comment was nothing but an insult that had NOTHING to do with the blog.
More racist comments:

Buttonboy is alarmed about the bad effects "Wiener" has had on humiliating his wife in the following, But yet she doesnt worry about trying to humiliate MY wife with her "dumpster diving" comment when referring to her buying from the discount rack.

I didn't forget our resident "pseudo-intellectual" who likes to think HE is the one with the brains.
He reminds me of the guy who created the Matrix in Matrix 2, who speaks for absolutely 5 minutes, all in 12 letter words, and doesn't say a THING.
Neo points it out to him and he concedes that Neo was correct and that he was actually doing that to distract him.

Make sure when you report this blog to point out to who you talk to the comments that have the red lettering pointing out the other TOS violations.

How I became a music addict

I decided to write this blog to fill in the part where music became such a large part of my life.

I will start from the beginning.

My older sister had a stack of 45's that were mostly hand downs from my Aunt. Songs that were in the "Bubblegum" genre from the 60's like "Yummy Yummy Yummy", "Chic-A-Boom", "1-2-3 Red Light", "Simple Simon Says" and then some 70s stuff like "Put Your Hand in the hand", "Playground in My Mind", and even some humorous songs: "Dead Skunk", "Hot Rod Lincoln", "Alley-Oop".





My Grandmother was a piano player but had wanted to play drums but was chastized by her parents because playing drums isn't "lady-like" She had an extensive collection of big band Jazz on 78's

My Dad liked the songs from the 50s through the 70s (rock and roll) until around 74 when music became too distant from the formula of music he liked. He also liked Classical like Mozart, Beethoven, and others, and this is how "yours truly" also became interested in the great composers music.

Mozart will always be my number 1 classical pick. I highly recommend people to see the movie "Amadeus" if you haven't seen it already. Make sure you bring popcorn though because its so long it has an intermission.

With a family of music lovers, it was not surprising where my interest was headed, and by the time I was the age of 9, I already owned a AM/FM transistor radio.

I had 2 older brothers and 1 older sister, and a little brother whom is mentally retarded, but guess what HIS favorite thing is?

MUSIC.

Yep. He is considered in the "severely retarded" classification and the 3 things he loves are Music, Cats, and Vacuum Cleaners. (oh, and you can trade him Hersheys Chocolate syrup for ANYTHING including Dads model car that he is literally holding so hard that he is about to crush it.)

Anyway, back to music.

I would listen to my radio daily as time would allow but at night when I was supposed to be sleeping, I would sneak my radio under the covers, turn it up just loud enough that I could hear it when I put it up to my ear, and literally BECOME the music for the next 2 hours. This was the part that later led to my becoming a night person.

Songs like "Black Water"/Doobie Brothers, "Up in a Puff of Smoke"/Polly Brown, "Don't Pull Your Love"/Hamilton, Frank and Reynolds, were among the songs I remember in that beginning stage of music loving.



Fast forward a couple years to 1974 and I was surrounded by stronger rock with more punch and pre-disco such as the "foundation"' group for Eurodance music in the future: ABBA, and my favorites were The Sweet, Brownsville Station, Jim Stafford, YES, and early Styx.







What do 3 of the 5 above all have in common?

Hmmmm, it definitely was another milestone in my roots that led to my music taste NOW.

3 of the 4 used THIS:



Cool noises were always something I loved even as a teeny child. Synthesizers have NO limits as to what sound they can make. I also LOVE echo/reverb.

Many rock groups starting in the late 60s and then going well into the 70s, used Synthesizer for effect.

Some of the greats that used it, were Iron Butterfly, Deep Purple, The Doors,YES, Styx, The Sweet, Kansas, Pink Floyd, Rush, Triumph, The Who.









OK OK OK!!!!
Interjection time!!!
If you aren't having fun yet and haven't been watching the vids, you're a POSEUR!!!

On a sidenote to that last video....trivia time.
Who was the Muppet "Animal" modeled from?

Yep, the "one of three" inspirational drummers that got ME started drumming...Keith Moon.
A little treat for ya:



Now as far as drummers overall, I picked Buddy Rich and gene Krupa as my idols and the other 2 rock drummers being Neil Peart and John Bonham.





OOPs!!! I went off on a drumming tangent.
Ok, lets bring that in while we're at it.

While Elton John was my idol in 72-74, I went on to like progressively quicker bands.
Styx, Boston, April Wine, Van Halen, Ted Nugent, Kansas, you name it. Also, I liked almost ALL of the pop songs out at that time.

When I was in 5th grade, a new kid came to my school who was a drummer.
http://www.stars4iowa.com/KStarret.htm

Kelly taught both my best friend Gary and myself a few basic beats to get us started playing drums.
Gary got a set within a year and I didn't get started on a drum set until 1978 (more on that later).

From 1975 on, I became addicted to music to the point I was listening to it at the very least for 3 hrs a day in my room.
My Dad concerned that my laying in bed looking up at the ceiling as I became one with the music or the constant pounding on my bed with a homemade set of drumsticks, decided to take me to a psychiatrist.
The psychiatrist told him that I was able to separate fantasy from reality and that he should be happy that it wasn't drugs that I was addicted to.

So for that 5 years, I developed my drumming skills with those homemade drumsticks and occasionally my dad would catch me and say "I don't know why you waste your time, you will never play drums".
I didn't listen, (of course).

Kelly went on to play in bands and performed at the schools he attended and I caught up with him in tenth grade at my High school.
I was impressed that he could sing and play drums at the same time.
He also was just finishing drum lessons to sharpen his skills from just playing by ear to playing notes as well.
Unbeatable combo.

Gary went on to keep playing the drums as a hobby and did some late night DJ'ing at our local hard rock radio station. He died a few years ago of liver complications.

Kelly still plays in the direct Midwest area at bars for 3 different groups as needed, mostly with "Roadshow".
I have tried to contact him three different times through MySpace but it appears his head has swollen a few notches through playing bars for so many years or he is just too busy to talk to old friends.

I'm hoping its the latter.

Back to my music interests.
Disco swept through in 75 -79 in a BIG way and there were several songs that had synth used in them, so of course it caught my ears.
ABBA was one of my favorites.
My usual pick though was hard rock songs.

From 1981-1990, I became a addict of hair metal/heavy metal.
The stronger the music, the better.
I didn't really care for thrash until about 1987 though.



Because of the extremely heavy drumming in metal, it became my choice of music to drum to.
I also cant get enough of "finger tapping" which I equate to being one of the coolest sounds on the planet. Listen and watch for the tapping during the guitar solo in this next video:



Some of the harder bands I liked were Savatage, Grim Reaper, Helloween, Iron Maiden, Accept, Motorhead, WASP, Black Sabboth, you know, a lot of the European stuff.

Ozzy started using synth and orchestral instruments in his music later in the game too.

ozzy osbourne - waiting for darkness from jezabell on Vimeo.

A lot of other European Heavy Metal bands were using synth too for dramatic effect and power.
Even Great White had fun with it:



Even Dio!!

Dio - I Could Have Been A Dreamer (Official Music Video) - The most amazing videos are a click away

Enter the 90s.
Hair metal was crucified by the new "angst" grunge rock.
So for giving a solid 10 years of "fun, partying, positive" rock, we get people complaining about their lives as a thank you.
Well....NO thanks!!

You know I am ALL ABOUT POSITIVITY.
Grunge was the epitome of the OPPOSITE ME.
Musically, there were a few songs I liked but the lyrics?
Stop crying already, that's what Country is for!!

So, I had to reinvent my musical tastes and I went the way of dance/hip hop and Alternative.
Technotronics and Alanis Morrissette and 4 Non Blondes were in my playing list.
Technotronics was the closest thing to Eurodance you could find in radio played music in America, and Eurodance was not even coined that term until around 1994 by Captain Hollywood Project.

I continued listening to Hair metal and Alternative and let grunge and Nu Metal pass me by.
Then in 2000, the music hit the airwaves that I deemed "the death of good pop music".
Boy bands were plenty and artists from all over had to literally swallow their microphones to be heard.
Then they had to do this silly thing that Christine Aguilera did with our National Anthem and ruin the idea of having any pizzazz or soul.

I grew tired of my overplayed hair metal and needed something new, something FUN, something positive, a good tempo, and where singers could be HEARD.

In 1996, I was listening to a dance channel on DMX (digital music xpress) that was a Cable offered music subscription, and had actually recorded several hours of "house music".
House Music is Eurodance music in its older form.
House music is the child of disco.

Technotronics is techno music but techno is NOW considered a "subgenre" of Eurodance music.
there was an online site that also released CD's called "Launch".

On Launch, I came across Eurodance and was able to identify it as such and the addiction began.
This was in 2002.
The first Eurodance song in its pure form that I saw was surprisingly BY the same artist that COINED the term "Eurodance":

here is that video:



There were some Eurodance videos already released in the US at that time that finally got to have a "home" in a named Genre:






M.C. Sar & The Real McCoy • Another Night • EU... by real-mccoy

Eurodance originally was about dancing and positive rap verses.
Later it became more commercial and sexualized and the theme became very spicy as evidenced by the following videos:


Master Blaster - Ballet Dancer by boixois


Dj Sava feat. Elena - Honey by VERGINIQ

and one of Lika's favs:



and notice that ALL Eurodance songs have that same thing in common with what I have always liked: Synthesizer.
It uses it as a "lead".

I still occasionally listen to my metal but Eurodance is the primary music played in both our vehicles and in our house.

YVI is legit

Once upon a time there were 6 friends whom teamed together as a most powerful alliance to go against child sexual abuse and online predatory behaviors by rapists and pedophiles.

I WILL name the players in this so it wont get confusing.

I am speaking in behalf of Youth Voice Initiative as a representative and not on a personal level.

YVI is getting a bad name by other Drama bloggers that are running rampant, re-posting a blog that tries to discredit YVI's intentions and its associations.

Ok, back to the story.

Petra Luna
is a Childs Advocate who met Deb Rowbury, decided to help Deb (nickname "lil Deb"), with a law that would expand penalties to online predators that targeted children for sexual abuse.

They came to agreements and Petra who is VERY popular as she is a musical artist and had run MANY other types of causes prior, could spread the word fast.

Petra wrote the ORIGINAL Aprils Law, which is displayed on the petition site currently.

Observe and read the 2nd sentence from the following blog which was Petras blog that was re-posted at MySpace Aprils Law page owned by Deb Rowbury:

Deb Rowburys blog admitting she is under Petra

Friday, May 25, 2007 

APRIL'S LAW ... PRESS RELEASE Current mood:  hopeful Category: Goals, Plans, Hopes ?MUCH LOVE TO YOU ALL , THIS WENT OUT TO 5 LOCAL NEWS PAPERS TODAY !!!!     ..> ..> Introduction- Ladies and gentlemen of the Media. Boise resident Debra Rowbury, a general in Petra Luna's War On Abuse Movement, has begun a campaign against web sites that promote pedophilia and crimes against children on the internet. This campaign will launch April's law, named for Debra's daughter who was a victim of child molestation. Her molester had frequented these legal sites to fuel his desires for under-aged girls and find support from his peers. Aprils Law is a bill which would police pedophile activites on the internet and make sites that advocate pedophilia and all its forms illegal and force removal of them. Its already illegal to show children in sexually explicit poses and positions, and this bill would expand it to better protect children. This sprung from an awareness movement against Lindsay Ashford who runs a website promoting and condoning the lifestyle of the pedophile. As if this weren't awful enough, his site also gives links to numerous support groups and other nefarious web sites for his Pedophile community. Puelulla.com is thumbing it's nose at American Law and our citizens. As his perverse web site operates at the finger tips of our children, Lindsay Ashford hides somewhere in the Netherlands laughing at our inability to impact a law to stop him and his kind from targeting our children. We, as a unified front, have vowed to shut Puelulla.com down for good. Body - The elected leader and voice of our movement, Petra Luna, has amassed a following of 42,000+ people on myspace and the movement is rapidly growing outside of myspace.com with an estimate of 50,000 followers worldwide or more. She is dedicated to ending all forms of abuse through her music and life's work. We did not choose this battle, it chose us. Any decent human being would find it nearly impossible to remain un-offended after visiting Ashford's site and reading his insane manifesto. Recently, in a radio interview, Ashford declared a statement in which he said a 6-month-old child has nerve endings and pleasure receptors, therefore has the capability of consenting to his sexual advances. This pedophile, his site and it's followers must be thwarted by any and all means possible. Since sites like Ashford's is protected by our 1st Amendment, April's Law will make all sites like his illegal on all American based search engines like Google, Yahoo and MSN. April's Law is a legal and permanent solution to the dangerous sites that inspire sex crimes against children. For more info go to www.aprilslaw.com or www.nomoresexykidsites.com. Boilerplate - (generally a short "about" section, providing independent background on the issuing company, organization, or individual.) Media Contact Information - (name, phone number, email address, mailing address, or other contact information for the PR or other media relations contact) Currently listening: Empowerment By Petra Luna Release date: 05 July, 2005

Also, take a look at THIS blog demonstrating her collaboration with Petra:

Friday, May 11, 2007 

RADEO TALK SHOW WITH PETRA LUNA !!! Current mood:  cheerful Category: MySpace From: "APRIL'S LAW" Date: May 10, 2007 10:53 PM ----------------- Bulletin Message ----------------- From: Petra Luna™/ Artist Warrior For The Abused! Date: May 10, 2007 9:25 PM eGADs with the "No more sexy kids sites" war special guest, recording artist and warrior advocate for the abused, Petra Luna May 9, 10:30PM ..http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hostpage.aspx?host_id=3696">.. id="btnListenLive" border="0" alt="Listen Live" src="http://www.blogtalkradio.com/images/ListenLive_180x60.gif" />

A man that goes by "Doc" was a friend of Petras.
He was a retired volunteer Sheriff.

Then a man named "Reaper Of Souls"/PHI owner comes along and meets Petra/Deb.

Reapers stance is that ALL sex offenders deserve the death penalty with no exceptions.

"Lika"/Youth Voices Initiative, joins VIA Reapers friendship they acquired.

Likas idea was that she wanted to be a Lobbyist to pass a law such as Aprils Law.

Deb agrees orally to let Lika take on the cause with her support.

Later,  Reaper posts a blog about going out to have a gang war against a supposed sex offender who was in his area.

Doc, being an ex-sheriff did NOT like this idea as it was a "vigilante" act.

An argument develops between Doc and Reaper.

Reaper gets upset and goes to Petra to try and get her to drop Doc, she refuses to answer Reaper to avoid the drama.

Reaper drops Petra, brings drama to Lika which causes an argument between Lika and Petra.

Lika and Petra go different ways, Reaper invents a pact with Lika that illustrates the need to keep away from Petra.

Now it comes down to Deb, Reaper, and Lika together as an alliance.

Doc remains with Petra.

Reaper develops a much closer relationship to both Deb and Lika.

Time goes on and Lika asks Reaper to help with some of her YVI pages while she takes a vacation.

Reaper has developed a new friend named "Lee"/Counselor for PHI

Enter me (no link needed).

I come to the Myspace forums and challenge Lika to a topic about sex offenders. The thread creator had opened up with the idea to kill sex offenders.

Over time, through messages and emails. Lika and I developed a relationship.

During this time, Reaper gets VERY close to Lee and starts naming her his "cyber-mom".

Reaper decides to become Wiccan through Lee and starts to converse with Lika about his supposed powers and ignoring the talks about the causes.

Meanwhile , Reaper is VERY incensed that I don't agree with the death penalty for every single sex offender and I think it should be a case by case
sentencing.

Static develops between Reaper and Lika for the next few weeks about her being close to me when I see things in gray and he in black and white.

Lee tries to block Likas friendship with Reaper more and more, as Lee teaches Reaper more Wicca and makes him believe he has magical powers involving controlling hurricanes and shutting down entire cities power grids, along with placing binding spells on people.

He continues fighting with Lika about her relationship with me and emphasizes that I am a "security risk" to her alliance with PHI.

Finally Lika has enough and pulls apart from him and his extremist and paranoid views, and decides to separate her alliance with him.

Feeling betrayed, he goes on a full word assault, placing my picture as a "danger to children and pedophile sympathizer" and Lika's personal info including the name of her son on his Freewebs PHI site.

Lil Deb is getting ill frequently as all of this plays out and is in fear that somebody is stalking her.
She converses with Lika about what to do and Lika asks her to come here and stay with her until she can feel secure again.

Deb ends up sick and hospitalized and allows Reaper to run her MySpace Aprils law site.
He fills her site with accusations and libel against Lika and Petra in the form of pictures, text, in order to get even with Lika's leaving him.

Lika, myself, and Reaper have a full blown cyber-war in which I felt it necessary to do a blog about him.
I feared he was doing more harm to the children then helping them with his delusions of magical abilities, hatred and extremism.


Enter the person whom me and Lika have been having cyber wars with lately.
This person at first said she would help us "handle" Reaper if we needed her.

Lika befriends a not so popular male here on Myspace who has been accused of being cruel to adult sexual abuse victims with his abrasive words, etc..

He is being called a rapist by many and Myself and Lika come to aid him as we feel it is not warranted to call somebody a heinous name unless they are proven guilty.

The lady whom was going to help us, turned against us and joined Reaper as a friend.

Time passes and we end up in a cyber war with the above mentioned lady.

She re-posts another blog by a certain other female blogger (that was her friend), and the blog is discrediting YVI saying that YVI was  stealing the Aprils Law Cause without permission of the owner.

Currently, a phone call is being awaited from Deb herself, to us.

Aprils Law was written after Debs daughters victimization, and so rightfully, if requested by Deb herself, we will drop the cause and start with a new one.

Last contact we had with Deb was when she was just getting ready to go into the hospital and that's what caused her to not come up here to stay with Lika.

Since then, Reaper has continuously controlled her page writing bad things about Petra and Lika.

He claims it is by her permission to discredit YVI, but to date, there is no proof that she wants it that way.

I have provided the following as proof that Petra Luna is the TRUE owner of the copyrights to Aprils law, on a Federal level.

The Official Copyright
this is at Copyright Site


There was a huge war as to WHO really owned the copyrights, Deb Or Petra.

The above proves it is indeed Petra.
No disrespect to Deb, but the following is all Deb had to provide for her
proof:

Debs proof of Copyright of Aprils Law

notice there is no filing number nor name of Copyright?
there is only a number at the top to record the transaction.
There is NOTHING Indicating that its for a law or cause at all.

I  believe that Petra has proven her case well.
You cannot argue with a valid Federal Document that is provided in their catalog of copyrights:

Go here and type in Aprils Law as a search word

YVI is a supported cause of Aprils Law as provided under Petra's copyright by Petra's permission.

 PLF (Petra Luna Foundation) is a 501c3 organization.

Thus, YVI is a fully legal non profit organization, 501c4 registered, and is  does NOT collect monies under Aprils Law, rather , the money from the donations are used to help with operating costs to push ANY legislation into Wisconsin for ANY cause we so choose.
Aprils Law just happens to be the CURRENT cause.

Petra showing support of YVI

Proof that Reaper/Paul runs Aprils page

Aprils Law page filled with Libel by Reaper himself

Petras declaration of owning Copyrights (already proven above)

Petra doing well at her cause

Look at the top friends

more support from Petra

Proof that Reaper took over Debs page while she was in hospital


So as you can see, all accusations of us running the cause fraudulently is a lie and libel.

If Deb returns the call we made to her last night and requests we drop the Aprils Law cause, we would be happy to oblige her since we will know it is HER request, NOT Reapers.

Reaper has just posted yet a new blog discrediting YVI and Petra and claims he has Deb Rowbury's public permission to, when in fact there is NO proof supporting her permission but his OWN writings.



More on this in Likas/YVI 's Version Blog    Special Note April 14th, 2010: Likas MySpace page was deleted by opposition and her blog went down with it. Here are the forms proving Likas Wisconsin Corporation Registry and her IRS non profit status grant, respectively:





Update:
Reaper has answered to Likas blog with his own at his own Myspace page with the following:

I will italicize our position to key statements:
Lika's Blog, posts Deb's receipt of the Copyright into her name, AFTER Lika claims Petra hold the copyright, so in that Blog, Lika is claiming that Deb is Petra. That's slander and defamation of character.

You need to read CLOSER.
Look at the paragraph ABOVE the paragraph that precedes the pic post of the Deb copyright. Lika CLEARLY posts a link labeled "copyright" in reference to what she says is "Petras" copyright.

I never said she's rich...everytime they put the links up, we sabotage their ability to scam money from people, by claiming it goes 100% to April's Law, when it goes into their pockets.

It has never been said that 100% goes to Aprils law and furthermore, the donations go to YVI for Lobbying purposes, plain and simple. Whatever cause is being lobbied at the time we support that cause, is getting its benefit THROUGH the costs it takes to LOBBY that particular law. (gas to get to the legislative offices, printouts used, ink,any costs associated with registering anything etc...etc...) 
The proceeds have never been designed to go to Aprils Law in itself.
YVI was not created for the SOLE purpose of backing and lobbying "Aprils Law", and is actually there to lobby for OTHER causes after Aprils Law gets passed or it is determined that no headway can be brought for that cause into the State of Wisconsin.
As a non profit organization, YVI is up for IRS audits at anytime the IRS decides to do so.


They have yet to prove this claim to be false...because they can't. Instead, they spin, and spin, and spin, and spin, as they continue spitting one lie after another, slandering and defaming people, without proof to verify their claims...instead of disproving anything someone says against them.

It is not OUR position to bring forth the burden of proof, it is yours as the plaintiff of the court case. We have a separate bank account for YVI proceeds and all donations go straight to that account and always has.
If an IRS audit were performed, we are safe.

That in turn, tells anyone with an IQ high enough to stand trial, that what's said against them is true, because they haven't disproved ANY of it, and it's been coming out for over a year now.

We have not been challenged to warrant the burden to prove, once again, that is your responsibility.

Nothing said against us OR any of our allies, has been verified with real proof. The supposed proof has been disproven time and again.

We CAN prove what we say if we so decide to sue you for libel and it can STILL be done.


I went to the page that's linked to from Lika's Blog, by searching the U.S. Copyright Office's database for this Registration number: TXu 1- 590- 504 on the web address: http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First Narrowing the search by only searching Registration Numbers, and the search came up blank.

Click my links above in this blog and you will see it goes directly to the registered copyright, also for your convenience, a picture link is also included in this blog.

Do it yourself, if you don't believe me; it'll come up blank for you too!

The web address that displays the violation of U.S. Federal Law is: http://www.plunafoundation.com/Aprils_Law.html

A granted Copyright is NOT a violation of ANY law.

Lika collected donations before having been granted a tax status, therefore she violated U.S. Federal Law.

Look at her Tax Statement in the upper right hand corner.
She was covered with that grant effective as of May 2nd, 2008
which would sure, make you correct that she did indeed receive donations before she
got her letter, but still the effective time she was covered is May 2nd, 2008 clearing her of any wrongdoing.
I suggest you scan letters better before dropping accusations.

The date on her letter granting her a tax status is dated June of 2009.

See above, genius.


We keep going around this little mulberry bush with that weasel, and coming up with the exact same shit, blowing her furry ass out of the water.

The above statement does not apply to any issues.

WHEN will she LEARN?! LMAO

Come on, Lika, this is way too easy. Please, by all means, I beg you to PLEASE keep helping us.

We can't do this without YOU.

ROTFLMMFAO!

-Paul
Founder/Co-Owner
Pedophile Hunters, Inc.

Now go be a responsible person and ask Deb to return Lika's call if you want us to
drop Aprils Law.
Your typed out words in Aprils Law Myspace page is NOT Deb's position at all to us and holds NO credibility.
We must hear from Deb herself.
Until then, we will continue the push for Aprils Law to be passed in Wisconsin.
If we have to change the name of the law, we will do so.
This blog  will not have comments enabled, it is to serve as fact and is indisputable.

If you MUST comment on my blog, go to my backup profile blog at:
My Backup profile blog

UPDATE!!

We have upturned more evidence that Reaper is the man behind writing phoney entries into Aprils Law page here on myspace.

Lika was looking for Petra Luna videos when she uncovered the following:
Look at the upper right hand corner and the date

Well, it appears that was done in February of THIS year and by Deb Rowbury's (Aprils Law page owner) own words "as a favor to HER"

Now look at Debs entry at the following blog:

Notice the Date

This means that Deb asked Petra AFTER the entry in that blog so it appears
that Deb must have NOT been mad at Petra in February.

Reaper has maintained Deb's Aprils Law site here at myspace since December 2008 during Debs hospital stay.

Looks like he is getting sloppy about hiding evidence against him.  


UPDATE:

April 2nd, 2010

YVI is no longer a sister company to MySpace's Aprils Law page as it has been discovered that Reaper has once again taken over the site.

April 2010 Reaper admits to YVI's legitimacy:

Consumer Comment

Respond to this report!

Correction: YVI is a group of scammers PRETENDING to care, while HIDING under a Non Profit Organization!!

PHI/Project Safe Innocents - (United States of America)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 POSTED: Wednesday, April 07, 2010

Let's be honest here, Mike C. Cee (Oops, I have your full name now, while Lika has an innocent bystander's name for me. LMAO)
The Youth Voice Initiative (YVI) is a valid non-profit organization NOW. She WASN'T when she started collecting donations though. That proof is everywhere, meathead. lol
Why do people mistake the results of a fixed mistake as the way things have always been? lol YVI has always been a group of scammers, just like I've always been a proud asshole since I was a kid, stop thinking you can steamroll people into believing you're telling the truth; honesty speaks louder than your breathe..which is still pretty rank. LMAO
Mom wanted me to keep getting you to screw yourselves over, and I TOLD her that if I "just sit back, relax, keep my mouth shut, and enjoy the show, they'll do way more damage alone, than they ever could with MY help." AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Is Lika still spouting her delusional ramblings about non-existent conversations between me and her? lol While we did talk on the phone, because I needed a good laugh, and missed having splitting headaches, I do NOT miss the whiny sound of her voice, or the way my stomache churned when her end of the conversations turned sexual, so I had to fake a dying cell phone battery, so more power to you, lover boy. lol
Has Lika seen mental health yet about her hallucinations and signs of schizophrenia? Having friends with Schizo, I know the signs, and kept recommending she go for her own safety, so she wouldn't hurt herself, or someone else, but she never listened to me; I suspect that was because I refused to jump into bed with her. (It'd be a cold week in hell, and I'd be deaf, dumb, blind, desperate, and dead, before I'd do THAT! LMAO)
I WARNED her that her crap would destroy her work, but did she ever listen to me? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! lol
Where's my popcorn?! LMAO
-Paul
"Reaper"
Founder/Co-Owner
Pedophile Hunters, Inc./Project Safe Innocents

#11

Employee

Respond to this report!

Responding to Comment #10

YVI President - Racine (United States of America)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, April 08, 2010 POSTED: Thursday, April 08, 2010

In response to comment number 10:
You are the sole reason for the Libelous accusations for YVI floating around MySpace and other websites.
If you had read the "effective date" of coverage on the non profit status IRS form, you will notice it says May 2, 2008. It does NOT matter when YVI received the letter of approval.
That means that ALL donations made to YVI was covered RETROACTIVELY from the date that the non profit status letter of request was received by the IRS.
No donations were made PRIOR to May 2nd, 2008.
Therefore, YVI is not a fraud.
My earlier rebuttal clearly gives links to show all necessary forms required by YVI to be a fully legal cause.
My suggestion to you is that you worry about getting a approval yourself (registered) to be using the "Incorporated" part of the "PHI" Pedophile Hunters Incorporated name or you may just end up in legal trouble yourself.
Have a good day.
Michael Cee
President YVI


so as you can see, Reaper has lost this battle since he cant read effective dates and readily admits YVI is now legit.His other accusations that Lika had any designs on him is as fake as his accusations against YVI .

schooling Deo

Guilt Posted by: Huck Finn on January 9, 2011 at 4:53PM CST Do I think divisive rhetoric (by pundits, and entertainers) lead to this tragedy? Yes and a small no. I read much too often about how the Supreme Court ruled that you can't shout Fire in a crowded theater. Anyone making this statement of fact doesn't realize that the Supreme Court NEVER made a ruling about shouting fire. NO ONE was ever tried and convicted of it for the case to appear before them. Say what? Oh my, am I blowing smoke? Nope, I had to study the case where this ruling came about as part of my Freedom of expression class in college. This case revolved around a political prisoner during WWII. What he was guilty of doing was fomenting an anti-war effort. He was advocating tearing up draft cards and refusing to be inducted into the military. Our government's answer to the problem was much like their Japanese-American answer. Lock him up without trial for the duration of the war. As his unlawful imprisonment progressed through the courts, each tier reaffirmed the need to keep his voice silent. Once it was to the Supreme Court, they sat and thought about it. What they came up with was that anyone who attempted to subvert the will of the State, was causing undue harm to the country. They likened the act to, “Yelling, 'FIRE' in a crowded theater.” The very act of subversiveness had the same effect on the country's well being. Are Radio and talk show personalities in some way guilty of yelling, “FIRE” to the person(s) pulling the trigger? I think they are the match that starts a conflagration. A Barn Fire starts as a single small flame. Mono Winged web sites that foment the radicals are the kindling. Neither side benefits from single minded street thug antics, but they happen all around us. The final fuel for the fire are the main stream web sites and news feeds. These blogs have become the foot soldiers of single mindedness. No shades of gray exist any longer. You're either with us or against us, choose a side. sigh, And now the first shot has been fired. By a nut. Even nuts can be intelligent enough to use a computer and have reading comprehension enough to read and believe what a more discerning viewer would take for entertainment. That's the problem. The fire has finally spread to the wrong side of the Bell Curve and the walls are smoldering and ready to burn. I promise you there are substantial number of people either cleaning their weapons, locked and loaded, or prepping to get there. Do we step back from the abyss or watch as the walls reach ignition? I would love to be a fly on the wall at the gun shops right now. It's true, the Right does have more gun lovers. It's a Nature of the beast sort of thing. Nothing against that. What I'd be concerned about would be if a large influx of Liberals started buying guns. Liberals are reactionary by nature, and when ired like a Sow bear, they protect themselves and their own. If this had been Obama getting shot, it would have been like throwing gasoline on the fire. We can only hope that that doesn't happen. So, is Sarah and Ann, and Bill and Rush and O'Riely, and everyone one else at the top of the fire pyramid guilty? Only as much as that single small flame is guilty of igniting an inferno. They didn't attack the brainwaves of the tinfoil hat crowd and perform mind control, nope. They just entertained the masses, and the masses aimed the fringe. They were just used as the match that lights a Hurricane lantern that later falls into the hay. Nope, find the one that pulls their strings and I'll show you the guilty one(s). The person guilty of lighting the match. Send This | Categories: (88) Comments Posted by: Deo on January 9, 2011 5:32PM CST Huck - Seems you are blaming one side and giving the other a COMPLETE PASS! You bias post does NOT address Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann or Janeane Garofalo! ANY PROOF TO SUPPORT YOUR BLOG! Hey Huck! About the shooter! "He lists reading under interests, as well as "conscience dreams," and among his favorite books are "Mein Kampf," the "Communist Manifesto," "Animal Farm" and "Brave New World." Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/08/shooting-suspects-apparent-youtube-video/#ixzz1AaGEyOVY Yep definilety a guy that listen to Conservative Talk Radio! Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 9, 2011 5:58PM CST Huck, this is a total bunch off bull ##### and you know it. The masses have ALWAYS argued with each other. SHEESH! I thought you grew up in the sixties. This is NOTHING compared to that! Funny how the left, who started these tactics in Vietnam war protests and elsewhere, are now lamenting that the other side has a voice. BTW. This guy had a video up burning an American flag.......doesn't sound like a Rush, Beck, Hannity or Oreilly fan to me. I think he was pissed off because she was too CONSERVATIVE!!! Posted by: algernon on January 9, 2011 6:33PM CST Huck, Are you trying to convince the people on this blog that you know how to put words together? The liberals are trying their best to get conservative talk radio off the air, and if that ever happens you wanna see guns? Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 9, 2011 6:53PM CST Hey Algie! Ya. The Fairness Doctrine (pardon me while I puke over those words) will be back in full force before you can whistle Dixie. Thank God we won the House!!! Posted by: Huck Finn on January 9, 2011 7:34PM CST I should have figured that even when I used neutral words like "Mono winged web sites" and didn't say Right or Left, there would still be a faction of people that'd rise up and act as if I had aimed the entire post at the Right. I realize there are Left websites just as bad. Maybe not with scope sites plastered on Conservatives, but the same rabid hyperbole. Hell, Sharpton is coming to Milwaukee. I'm aware. Why even try to defend the obvious? Algernon, you want to see guns, shoot Obama. You'll see guns. You guys act like you'd embrace a civil war. Maybe it's too late to step back from the abyss. The FACT of the matter is that the discussions have reached the low brow that don't think intellectually, and do look for answers with a gun. From BOTH sides. Get with the program folks. if you can't admit that much, there will be more repercussions as the fire burns, and more on the fringe do what fringe's do. We are at a cusp, and over the next week(s) others might copy cat. Want to bet Politicians get a lower profile? Yes DDD, such nasty habits of shouting down any idea that doesn't walk in lock step. I believe during the 50s and 60s the Conservative "voice" was a noose and a crowbar. Thank heavens you guys found your voice in these modern times. Then again Conservatives thought such tactics as shouting down the opposition was boorish and crude. Goodness have times changed. Was this moving the bar up, or did it fall on the floor? As I said, things are becoming more polarized. Comments are ruder. More name calling (yes I'm guilty too), and less coming to a middle ground. Jeez, even Algernon is talking guns as if he'd start shooting too. Pssst, listen up. Liberals believe in freedom of speech. It's like when I bailed and boycotted when Guns-and-Ammo and Orbs were banned from here. Don't assume that liberals want to take away your freedom of speech. We aren't the ones that censor books. We're blamed for the ACLU ya know. Now that would be funny. The ACLU fighting for your freedom of speech. hilarious. The IRONY! Posted by: Solomon on January 9, 2011 7:40PM CST Anyone creating an avatar with a guy firing a rifle is the inciter! Posted by: AWBC on January 9, 2011 8:32PM CST Wow, we really have gone off our rocker, or wheelchair as it might be. Sounds like old Huck here may be just as unstable as young Jared in Tucson. Maybe someone should knock on his door and ask him a few questions? Huck, dude. You are trying to make a political point where there really is none. Sometimes a nut is just a nut. There is no 'there' there with Mr Jared at this point, and no amount of beating that dead horse will change it. There is nothing about that beautiful, wonderful congresswoman, or anyone else in that crowd that was so objectionable to any SANE person to cause such an action to take place. You and the liberals out there in lala land, and the media can't make something that isn't so true, no matter how many times you try. If you are going to continue to carry this torch that somehow talk radio, or Sarah Palin, or the TEA Party incited this lunatic, then you better put up some kind of proof. Otherwise your words are just as vitriolic and incendiary as those you are accusing others of using. Posted by: algernon on January 9, 2011 8:35PM CST "even Algernon is talking guns as if he'd start shooting too". First of all Huck I'm an 82 year old woman--soon to be 83 God willing. What I meant in my comment was there is too much talk about getting conservative talk radio off the air and there are way too many people who would be offended by that. Especially when "talk t.v." does not threaten Keith Olberman, Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews. For my part I feel there is way tooooo much talk. There is more talk and information (good or bad) in one day now than we had in six months during world war 2. Everyone thinks he or she is right. Folks aggravate each other with so much talk. And when somebody kills somebody or a child is abducted, it's on the t.v. in seconds and copy cats are watching. Now we have the internet and more talk, talk, talk. We conservatives don't embrace a civil war. I, for one, hate war and so do my conservative friends. War is senseless and we lose the best and the brightest of our young people. Sad. There is always a reaction to an action, so if everybody would just shut up once in awhile, it might solve a lot of our problems. Posted by: algernon on January 9, 2011 8:38PM CST May I say AWBC, I agree with everything you wrote here. Posted by: AWBC on January 9, 2011 8:54PM CST How are these words for incendiary? “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.” These words were spoken on June 13, 2008, not by Sarah Palin or Glen Beck, but by then-Presidential candidate Barack Obama. " “I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican." "I want you to argue with them and get in their face,” he said." --Presidential candidate Barack Obama, September 17th, 2008. Incendiary rhetoric from the right? Posted by: Huck Finn on January 9, 2011 9:32PM CST So many point out the obvious. I'm really impressed. And yet... so many have missed the point entirely at the same time. Thus makes me sad. Stop being apologists and take on some responsibility. Yes, Clinton had sex in the white house too. Does that change the rhetoric by the fringe? Of either side? Posted by: philosopher on January 9, 2011 10:45PM CST Politics has always been rather nasty (read some of Mark Twain's political comments), but the present era of super-nasty political rhetoric was initiated by the Dems in the Judge Bork appointment to the Supreme Court confirmation hearings. The Dems even were so pleased with themselves they coined the phrase "we'll Bork him" when thinking of the next one whose nomination would be submitted for Senate confirmation. And, they continued this pattern in the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. They (Dems) are fully responsible for the present idea that you don't disagree with a political opponent, you hate him/her and ravage them personally and continuously. Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 9, 2011 11:48PM CST Oh really? Liberals don't censor books? This was a bad week to make that comment, Huck.....didn't you hear about your namesake Huckleberry Finn being re-edited by the liberal thought police to eliminate the N word? Anybody who wants to do that doesn't understand the book. Posted by: AngelMT on January 10, 2011 12:33AM CST Seeing as how you only listed Right wing commentators, "Sarah and Ann, and Bill and Rush and O'Riely", let me take this moment to point out something you missed. Only two days before the shooting a diary writer on the Daily Kos posted "My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!" Another match lit? Or does it not count? Daily Kos obviously thinks it was incendiary, they have made the post disappear. They didn't however scrub away their own list of "bad apple" democrats. He "targeted" Giffords as well. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568 So its not just the conservatives who are guilty of "lighting the match". Now being someone who leans conservative, I would like to say the the blame lies ONLY on the shoulders of the nut who pulled the trigger, but I'm heartless that way. Posted by: Lika on January 10, 2011 1:33AM CST Huck, you have written a very interesting commentary here, that I wish the JT would post in their paper, even if they list you as anonymous. I agree that it's those who play with matches that lead to the likes of this nut job who will go like the hurricanes to blow the barn down, and it really doesn't matter if Giffords was a Democrat with conservative leanings. While she's a little conservative, yes, but, she was centrist enough that she ought have been able to unify the government better, or at least be independent enough not to follow either party line on anything. It's true that democrats seem to be more reactionary, and maybe we need to be more proactive. I'm not sure. But these protests were a good example of expressing your right to peacefully assemble, and to petition the government. Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 10, 2011 6:20AM CST Huck says, "I should have figured that even when I used neutral words like "Mono winged web sites" and didn't say Right or Left, there would still be a faction of people that'd rise up and act as if I had aimed the entire post at the Right" Well, you went on to use the names of peole on the right, so those of us that can read can clearly see who you are talking about. I think we should be watching out for the likes of you, you seem a little out of balance yourself. Posted by: Deo on January 10, 2011 8:42AM CST This man CLEARLY stated on-line that he wanted to Kill the congresswomen for "voting against Nancy Pelosi"! Yet it is "Sarah and Ann, and Bill and Rush and O'Riely," not Matthews, Olbermann, Maddow, or Garofalo! Hey Huck for your uninformed pleasure! IS DAILY KOS INVOLVED IN ARIZONA MURDERS? “My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!” — eerie Daily Kos hit piece on Gabrielle Giffords just two days before assassination attempt; repeated use of word “dead” in relation to Giffords just 48 hours before she and a dozen others were fired upon. http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelosi-and-is-now-dead-to-me-eerie-daily-kos-hit-piece-on-gabrielle-giffords-just-two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/ So Huck the Daily Kos yep TOP of every Conservative TV or Radio Host reading list. Your blog is based on your own Prejudice Not facts as the TRUTH CLEARLY SHOWS! Posted by: Mr B on January 10, 2011 8:49AM CST huck, Right now there is very little real information on this guy and what might be his accomplice. Before people start pointing fingers at the cause we should see what the real drivers were behind this terrible crime. Evil people do terrible things and sometimes there is no making sense of it at all. Posted by: Mr B on January 10, 2011 8:52AM CST DDD - Why would you assume the changes to Huck Finn were a "liberal" change? What facts are there this was "liberal" work? Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 10, 2011 9:04AM CST I think the best example of the politics of personal destruction I have EVER seen is the left wing and supposedly mainstream media going after Sarah Palin. They have turned demonizing conservative women running for office into an art form. I remember when they did the same thing to Phyllis Schafley. (I might have that last name a little wrong, but don't feel like looking it up, sorry.) Anyway, the point I am trying to make here is that in some really creepy way liberals just REALLY HATE conservative women. And they think for so e reason that it is OK to go after them with a vengeance. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to tie the fact that this woman was a blue dog to her shooting; I'm just trying to point out that incendiary rhetoric seems to be going after WOMEN these past few years. AWBC, I think you nailed it. There isn't any there there yet, and until we know more, I agree we should all pray for the recovery of this woman, and for the families who lost loved ones and the recovery of the wounded. Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 10, 2011 9:41AM CST Mr. B, look it up. Dr. Alan Gribben, the editor of the new edition specifically says that he did this work to keep Twain's masterpiece in the classroom. He is a Twain scholar and hated to see the book cast aside.Because of the N word, it was being delisted from curricula all over the country. I personally think it was wrong to give in to these kinds of pressures, but he's closer to the problem than the rest of us, and felt that he had to preserve the teaching of what is probably the great American novel. It's the liberal PC crowd who were delisting the book. I don't think ANYONE believes that Conservatives run the schools in this country. I personally cannot keep up with the proper terminology for different races, particularly black Americans. I understand that the N word is completely offensive to them, unless they are using it themselves...then it's like the F word. But in my lifetime we have had so many iterations of what to call black Americans that I am loathe to even mention it here for fear of being labeled racist, which I assure you, I am not. As Algie says, way too many words........and I might add, people way to ready to use them as weapons. People who spread political correctness by censoring speech eventually censor thought. That's their goal. Right now, liberals occupy that drivers seat, not conservatives. Posted by: MC on January 10, 2011 10:10AM CST "... that in some really creepy way liberals just REALLY HATE conservative women." DDD, that's easy to explain. Conservative women are sooooo much better looking then the libs! The libs are just jealous as h. :) I wish Huck would transfere his rath and worry and concern and attacks to where it is trully needed which is the REAL 'abyss' we are on the edge of - our economy. Apply all that retoric and energy and finger pointing to the current regime that is burying this Country in debt RIGHT NOW! Our debt is well beyond the 'flame' condition. Posted by: StormyKnight on January 10, 2011 10:15AM CST Huck- "Are Radio and talk show personalities in some way guilty of yelling, “FIRE” to the person(s) pulling the trigger?" NO Where's the evidence that he was an avid Limbaugh fan or Hannity fan or Michael Reagan fan? The only evidence that's come to the fore is he was a Mein Kampf fan and Communist Manifesto fan. He clearly was into something strange with his talk of conscience dreaming....whatever the heck that is....so if anything, he's been listening to socialists and communists and buying into their garbage. But the same day the shooting took place some idiot on CNN tried pinning this guy to the Tea Party. If he wasn't so serious about it I would have laughed; instead, I turned him off and stopped listening to that line of shear and utter BULL. Those on the left are the ones placing blame when the fact of the matter is, this guy was a nut job and we will probably never fully understand why he did what he did. But for ANYONE to use this incident as a launching point for political diatribe, as you have done here, should be ignored. To quote Paul Harvey.... "Good day." Posted by: Mr B on January 10, 2011 11:10AM CST DDD - You talk about the politics of personal destruction yet you exempt conservative talk radio from your comments. Listening to Rush, Hannity, Mark Levine (sic?) etc.. there is more than enough vitriol going around. And it is not like those folks spare women (see Carol Mosely Brown, Janet Reno, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi). Both sides attack the person not the message. Look at the comments about Obama, (socialist, muslim, etc.... ). To say it all started with the left is a disengenous. Both sides are even willing to attack their own (Bush's smearing McCain, Hillary getting slammed in early 08 by Dems). SK - I do agree with you whole heartedly about trying to make sense of the ravings of a madman. I do hope we all look at it as an opportunity to be a bit more civil to one another and attack veiwpoints not people. Interesting you threw in "so if anything, he's been listening to socialists and communists and buying into their garbage. " Yet don't feel it is appropriate for anyone else to point out a political viewpoint. Which way do you want it? SK - If the Congress p Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 10, 2011 11:33AM CST I will type this slowly so even Mr B can understand it: There is NO evidence AT ALL that any talk radio person had any influence whatsoever on this gunmen. There is evidence he had left leanings. Nobody on the right is blaming Olbemann and Maddow and the left's blowhards, but we are seeing plenty of if going the other way. Posted by: StormyKnight on January 10, 2011 12:02PM CST Mr. B- I'm asking that people get their facts straight. Fact: Loughner states himself that Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto are among his favorite literature. Fact: Loughner never mentions any right wing radio personalities or the Tea Party in any of his writings/videos. So tell me, how is what I stated before an incorrect conclusion? Did I blame anyone here for his leftist leanings? Did I blame Obama? Did I blame Jokin' Joe? Did I blame Pelosi? Did I blame Reid? Chris Matthews? Huffington Post? THAT'S why I feel my comments are appropriate. I'm not carelessly ripping or blaming anyone else but Loughner, Hitler and the Commies- the only ones we know for certain that had any influence on the guy. Posted by: Mr B on January 10, 2011 1:03PM CST BB - I will type this out slowly for you. I never once said anything about them having any responsibility. I was responding to DDD's comments about the left being responsible for "politics of destruction". Look at my comments for the facts associated. If you insist in being insulting in your comments you would look less idiotic if you read my comments before posting responses. SK - Again I did not imply either side influenced this nut job. The facts will come out once they have this guy behind bars for a while. you implied his leanings were left was my assumption since I have at many times read comments that the right feels liberal ideas equate to communism. If I was wrong in that assumption my apologies. Posted by: MC on January 10, 2011 2:17PM CST The 'perk' has a blogger/twitter friend (girl) who has described him as being very liberal. Posted by: StormyKnight on January 10, 2011 2:53PM CST MC- Did you mean perp? And now the left is trying to discredit and malign her! Of all the gall!!!! No harm done, Mr B. If the perp is saying he admires Hitler and commies then we have to take his word for it. I wouldn't dare speak FOR him but I'll listen to him before I'd listen to a talking head speculating on what the guy believes. Loughner wasn't hiding anything before his attack and admits freely to his own beliefs. Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 10, 2011 4:24PM CST According to reports, this guy has been obsessed with the congresswoman since 2007. He went to a similar town hall meeting that year and asked some stupid questions that she didn't answer. Here's the story: http://slatest.slate.com/id/2280740/ Posted by: ALWAYS FREE on January 10, 2011 4:28PM CST http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 10, 2011 5:31PM CST Mr B. I don't listen to talk radio, so I can't say if those guys have attacked liberal women. As I recall, Carol Mosley Brown destroyed herself...didn't need anyones help. Janet Reno made a couple of huge errors and deserved whatever criticism she got. Hillary Clinton was more a victim of the left, but she is the secretary of state, hardly destroyed. Nnancy Pelosi I'll give ya. And I'll freely admit that I have joined in and will continue to do so with the last breath in my body because I believe she will stop at NOTHING to turn this country as far leftvas she possibly can. She is ruthless. The only way to combat that kind of fire is with fire. Posted by: Edge Distance on January 10, 2011 5:54PM CST This congresswomen was no blue dog. She was more conservative in state politics but has voted with obama 87.7% since moving to the federal level. How is that a Blue dog? The guy who shot her is a loon. Huck I group you with the Sherrif down there who basically said it was conservative talk radio's fault. Jared is an Idiot and mental. Why must people always find some reason? He was a nut bottom line! Posted by: StormyKnight on January 10, 2011 11:02PM CST DDD- Hi! :) I listen to all kinds of talk radio (mainly because todays music is just noise to me) and I can tell you that some talk show hosts are stern in their analysis and they don't pull punches. I don't have a problem with telling it like it is so I enjoy the shows to hear differing opinions. I know of no one (outside of shock jocks) that belittle women. I do know a handfull of liberal women that belittle conservative women. I wonder if Mr B finds that wrong or if it's OK to put down a member of the same sex as long as they are politically opposite. Posted by: Bottom Line on January 10, 2011 11:45PM CST We can't have freedom of speech, and provisions for hate speech. Over the years, we have seen that there are entertainers that get rich plying their trade on weak minds. We have also seen free speech that includes the emotions of people that are very distraught, yet they never manifest violent behavior. Those that want a resolution that would prevent some knucklehead from committing a heinous act are overlooking the result .... silence. No debate, no uprising when government overlooks their constituents. I am beside myself, whenever someone is truly injured, or worse, murdered. Yet, I realize we cannot succumb to silence, for the knuckleheads will still be knuckleheads, and they will not be silent. Those that want to engage this condition, should ask why we can't have simple justice for this condition. There should have been a hanging, the very next day. My prayers for those affected, and for the Countries determination to maintain it's character, in spite of those that pray we lose our resolve. Posted by: racinenativemn on January 11, 2011 12:37AM CST A lot of good responses to a silly blog. Posted by: Lika on January 11, 2011 1:50AM CST So I'm hearing many a conservatives here saying that because the shooter was politically motivated, and the law maker was a democrat with conservative views. Now, because the punk looks up to Hitler he is now liberal? How is being a hateful Nazi = being liberal? That is absurd. Bottom Line, what does freedom of speech include? Limiting free speech to where you can't slander or libel or defamation of character considered to be limiting free speech? How about public reading about how to rape women, or to kill children and get away with it? These would be hate speech, and it's limited. When it comes to life and death, I'll keep responsible free speech. Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 11, 2011 7:38AM CST There is no evidence this was politically motivated beyond the fact the shooter did not like this particular congresswoman. Nobody really knows why he didn't like her, but the man is batshit crazy, so what does it really matter? NOBODY has come forward to say he was a right-winger. NOBODY has come forward to say he listened to Beck or Limbaugh or Palin. A few who know him called him a liberal and a pothead. But let's not let any of that spoil a perfectly good opportunity for the left to use this disgusting event for political reasons. And nobody can seriously deny they are not doing just that. Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 11, 2011 8:01AM CST Define 'responsible free speech'. Also, a reading about how to rape a woman or kill children would be far more likely to occur on a college campus than anywhere else. It would be defended on the left not just as free speech but as art. There are legions of examples of art and speech and college curricula that are horribly offensive but defended by the left. What seems to offend them the most, though, is dissent on free speech from the right. That they deem offensive or hateful and want to shut down. Posted by: StormyKnight on January 11, 2011 11:11AM CST Lika- Loughner also favored the Communist Manifesto. BTW, the Nazi party's full title was/is the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Socialism isn't an idea from the right and it is a misnomer to consider them conservative in ideology. They gave free health care to the German people to try to 'win' them over. [gee- where have I seen that done recently?] Loughner clearly has some psychological problems and seeing as how he was obsessed with Giffords since 2007 and had alters in his back yard with skulls on them shows how unstable he is. But he is open to political ideas which I do think swayed his desicion to take matters into his own hands. Making a U.S. representative the target makes his act, IMHO, a politically motivated one no matter how messed up in the brain he is. It is my contention that this attempt by some conservative talk show hosts to assuage blame from EITHER side of politics is not only misguided in light of the evidence but it is disingenuous as well. Loughner is just another liberal assasin in a long line of liberal assasins from Lee Harvey Oswald to the Unibomber. This probably won't curry any favor with some of my conservative counterparts but hey- I gotta be me. ;) Posted by: Deo on January 11, 2011 11:37AM CST Lika - Two points: First it was Huck that infered that the shooter was tied to Conservative on Radio and Television. Completely False however this is not! Fact: "“My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!” So please tell us all who is more likely to support Nancy Pelosi and what she pushed through Congress? CONSERVATIVES wanted people to vote AGAINST Pelosi, this guy DIDN'T. He was a SUPPORTER of the agenda of the Democrats, and tried to kill a fellow Democrat for not going along with Nancy! Second and MOST Impotantly! Obama’s turnout pitch to Latinos: Get out there and punish your “enemies” “If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.” The President telling fellow DEMOCRATS that those that do not agree with you are the "ENEMY" So one could argue that because the congresswomen had a mind of her own and would not follow every command from Pelosi and Obama she was to be considered the "ENEMY" I will now pull a Huck! The Shooter was only following the directions of he PRESIDENT who told supports "“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,” he said. Hardly the way to convince someone of our point sound more like Bullying and Intimidation! The man was a nut job but all the Left has done is try to blame the Right since the Left cannot compete in the FREE MARKET they will say ANYTHING to try and stop conservatives from having a voice since they are smarter they we are, just ask Euro! By the way, this is Huck's blog and he hasn't been here in 2 days I WONDER WHY? LOL Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 11, 2011 12:10PM CST He's in the tall grass. Posted by: MC on January 11, 2011 1:18PM CST Right SK, I did mean 'perp'. I watch too much of 'Criminal Minds". Anybody see the perps mug shot? There are pics of him from earlier that do not look like they are the same person at all. It's as if he went thru some sort of transformation and now looks like a goul or that character in the "Munsters". I can see his mental problems right in his eyes now. The left is following Ramhs teachings perfectly, where he said 'never let a crisis go to waste'. Next it will be more gun control laws. Posted by: Lika on January 12, 2011 1:51AM CST Button boy, I fully agree with you on the part of it doesn't matter what the background of this guy's political background is. As for defining responsible free speech, is to keep it to your opinions, helpful information, etc, the minute it turns into slandering a person to the point they lose their jobs over the post, is irresponsible. And are you awake? The how to's of raping a woman comes from college campuses? So you're saying that if it's a college girl that gets raped due to that post, it's okay? It's still irresponsible because someone else got hurt by the situation. Mind you, Lindsey Ashford, Jack McClellen, Roderick Muit (all adults), and NAMBLA (run by adults) are the ones that used to promote what's called "legal pedophile websites" and touted it as free speech because children were property to their parents, etc... Just remember, there is a HUGE difference between offensive, and showing someone how to "commit the perfect crime" or, in my mind, the perverted crime. Someone might write a book with a ton of cuss words in it, I'll do my darndest to logically tell people that only a simpleton and a low intellect would want to read that. But I won't try to get that banned. I can ensure I teach my child better than that than to read garbage. On the other hand, sex predators are not mere books. I can try my best to keep away, and teach my son to stay away, but if we are targets, we are potential victims. Endangering my family is unnacceptable, and therefor, having the FREEDOM of speech means you also act responsible and ensure that you're not harming anyone. Posted by: Lika on January 12, 2011 2:09AM CST Stormy, you must also remember, that Japan, while politically is a democracy, socially is a socialist type country. They have socialized medicine, so as to keep the general workforce (and their families) healthy, so as to have a productive workforce. Japan, by traditional thinking, is much more conservative than what we have here... Compared to the "standard" in Japan, all of you republicans talking in here would look like bleeding liberals standing next to them. Seriously. So in other words, what my saying is, you can't consider socialism a conservative OR a liberal idea. Having socialized medicine has nothing to do with if you're bribing or not, because big business in Asian countries love it because it's cheaper for them to do it that way rather than to offer packages acceptable and affordable to their people. Posted by: Lika on January 12, 2011 2:23AM CST Oh, and also about Hitler, he was a controller, which makes him more of a conservative with his authoritarian ways. He used the Bible and very traditional values to back his socialism up. I could go on, but I just don't think it's fair to pin it up as either party. The Obama care wasn't supposed to be a socialized item, because it wasn't meant to phase out private insurance or private care. Here is an article that may be helpful - http://open.salon.com/blog/je_robertson/2009/06/19/the_public_option_is_not_socialized_medicine I'm not saying I agree with the way Obama went down with his HCB. But the idea was to make it more accessible. I stand by my statement that the idea behind it was nice, but the way it logistically got thrown together and pushed through was sloppy and wrong. Posted by: Lika on January 12, 2011 3:15AM CST Deo, I also read an article not too long ago that had Sarah Palin made a statement of "one down, more to go" - I could have brought that here to sensationalize, but, I did not, because they did not cite the source where she would have stated that any place. How do you know if the shooter was conservative or not? That is a question still up in the air. And how do you know it wasn't a personal thing, where he wanted something from her directly, as a person, and he didn't get the answer he wanted? Articles talk about how things went back as far as 2007. That sounds like a stalker. Stalkers don't come in political parties. They come in one general bunch, and that's a crazed insanity. As for that remark about voting against the enemy, source? Did you actually hear it or did you read it from a conservative news place? You're being ridiculous as for pretending to be Huck. Exaggerating to the point of being radical isn't helping your argument any. If this is the best you can do, maybe you need a breather. Or, take a step back, deep breath, and read first - understand what is there - then make your argument, point, etc from there. Euro never said that the right doesn't get an opinion. He agrees that this nut-job needs to be put in check. Go check this link above for the health care one, and this one also as for what a free market is - http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/FreeMarket.html Pay special attention to the first two paragraphs, where it explains how free market is supposed to benefit BOTH, the buyer and seller, for the seller needs to make the money, and the buyer needs the item to be bought. Without the mutual benefit, it's no longer a free market, it's coercion or greed. Posted by: Lika on January 12, 2011 3:23AM CST Oh, and Deo, he's not here because you just appointed me the Liberal Liason here in the JT blogs... And no, I don't need Euro's permission ;)) Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 12, 2011 9:32AM CST Lika, You should know that the left thinks anything goes as far as free speech, no matter how offensive or DANGEROUS, except when it comes to those who criticize THEM. That is the speech they want to stifle. Posted by: Deo on January 12, 2011 10:10AM CST Euro is pretending to be Lika! "As for that remark about voting against the enemy, source? Did you actually hear it or did you read it from a conservative news place?" "You're being ridiculous as for pretending to be Huck. Exaggerating to the point of being radical isn't helping your argument any. If this is the best you can do, maybe you need a breather. Or, take a step back, deep breath, and read first - understand what is there - then make your argument, point, etc from there." This is not how Lika blogs this is how Euro Blogs what a loser! A quick jab followed by instruction from the Lord on high as to how we are to blog! Yeah youtude is a conservative news place! Geez the Hack is back! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnnwJ1rgCnM Or perhaps this Right Wing Nut Job Source! "Obama responded: "If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, 'We're gonna punish our enemies and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,' if they don't see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it's gonna be harder." http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=12026207 Posted by: MC on January 12, 2011 12:05PM CST "Posted by: Lika on January 12, 2011 2:23AM CST Oh, and also about Hitler, he was a controller, which makes him more of a conservative with his authoritarian ways." WTH! Please tell me you are not serious for that is so wrong and convoluded Lika/euro. Posted by: StormyKnight on January 12, 2011 12:07PM CST Hitler was an athiest. ANY reason for his use of the Bible is automatically suspect. What conservatives and liberals are called in other countries aren't always the same meanings they have here. The media, if I remember correctly, used to call the Soviets conservatives in the respect that they were trying to hold on to what they had built up and had been in power for so long. Anyone thinking freedom and liberty was viewed as a liberal radical. It does matter what ideology Loughner was listening to. We ALL are sum totals of our influences. Posted by: Huck Finn on January 12, 2011 12:39PM CST I have a life that requires some time away from the monitor is why I've been away, but really what's the point of repeating myself? While I did list right winged news commentators, the main post was very generic. As pointed out, that didn't stop the apologists from doing damage control or taking offense to the entire post. The whole argument of "It's your fault, not mine." completely misses the point that it's OUR fault. Once it was established that no one seems able to accept even a modicum of responsibility, what was the point of debate? A true sign of our times. No one is at fault, and no one is guilty ever. Not much better than the criminals that populate our prisons. When asked, nearly everyone will tell you they aren't guilty either. I believe them just as much. Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 12, 2011 12:48PM CST Now it's OUR FAULT? How did any one of us cause a nutjob in Tucson to gun down a bunch of people? Really, are you capable of linear thought? As for your assertion that no one is guilty, again you are wrong. Mr Jared Lee Loughner is guilty. He alone is responsible for his actions. Posted by: MC on January 12, 2011 2:19PM CST On the news today more of Jaerd's aquaintances said he didn't listen to news of any kind and didn't have interest in political parties. Of course that hasn't stopped the left from continuing to say it was right wing 'hate'speech' radio and TV that drove him to do this. Just as BB said, Jared is the one guilty for his actions - no one else. It sure as h is not 'our fault' FGS. Huck is always looking for someone else to blame for everything. Posted by: Huck Finn on January 12, 2011 3:10PM CST Yes it is "Our fault." I figure that if you can't feel empathy, you sure can't feel guilt. Looks like I'm correct in that assumption. Posted by: AWBC on January 12, 2011 4:54PM CST OMG, Huck, what the hell are you talking about? What are WE guilty of? Are you serious? Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 12, 2011 5:15PM CST I do not feel the SMALLEST iota of guilt about this assignation, and I assure you, I usually am able to feel guilty about ANYTHING! The only people who should feel guilty about this, besides the perp himself, are his PARENTS. They should have forced him to receive help many years ago. Other than that, the only guilty one here is Jared himself. Posted by: eurodanceaddict2 on January 12, 2011 6:47PM CST Deo, I am breaking my agreement because you are not fighting fair. I posted NOTHING in this blog whatsoever. Do you want to call Lika and ask HER to verify all comments made in her account was made by her? 456-4723 Call, and be prepared to eat your words. I don't use the word "remark" or many other things she says. It just hurt your pride that she can oppose you with as much zeal as I did. Seriously, get over yourself. Posted by: eurodanceaddict2 on January 12, 2011 6:51PM CST Oh and about Hitler? Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1989 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[3][2] In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all online discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably end up being about Hitler and the Nazis. Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread Reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact. Although in one of its early forms Godwin's law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now often applied to any threaded online discussion, such as forums, chat rooms and blog comment threads, and has been invoked for the inappropriate use of Nazi analogies in articles or speeches.[6] My comment: Hitler was an exception to the common Joe in his thoughts and actions and contradicted himself, so many times, that he is not a good example of anybody OR anything. Good day and please dont make me come back again. You have a problem? CALL US, do NOT make accusations like Gray Kitty and now Deo has done. Posted by: Huck Finn on January 12, 2011 7:13PM CST DDD, it is beyond the ability of too many conservatives to understand what I meant with my statement that we are all guilty. Just another sad statement of the world we live in. His parents are guilty? How absurd. Every family finds itself with a bad apple every now and then. Bad apples come from families that love, abuse, go to church, go to hell, spare the rod, abuse the rod, teach respect, teach contempt... I could go on. Even totally worthless parents can find themselves with a good kid. If you knew them personally, maybe you could judge. Not knowing, they are as guilty as you, but you aren't guilty, so why are they? Posted by: Deo on January 13, 2011 12:37AM CST Huck - "it is beyond the ability of too many conservatives to understand what I meant with my statement that we are all guilty." Then why did you ONLY name conservatives and not ONE Liberal! Your intent was clear now you are backtracking to cover your bases won't work. You tried to blame "Sarah and Ann, and Bill and Rush and O'Riely,". You named NO one else! Posted by: Deo on January 13, 2011 1:08AM CST Save it Euro! Do you ever stop lying? I am not the only one that see through your attemps to not keep your word! Posted by: eurodanceaddict2 on January 13, 2011 2:33AM CST Deo, Call. Put your money where your mouth is Deo. Its hilarious that you expect Lika to kiss your you know what, and it has never been that way. She is polite when she feels it is warranted. I could easily address your comments that she already answered and my answer would be completely different. I dont care WHERE the vids came from and I wouldnt have even asked. Yes, Obama and other Liberals are just as guilty of hateful words and I would never deny that when you have people like Rush Limbaugh on YOUR side. The man who called Michael J Fox a fake and found out he was wrong about Michael just like you are about me answering for Lika. Notice Rush apologized for his mistake and you just keep on calling me a liar. What does that say about you Deo? Am I right about how hateful and resentful you are? Posted by: Lika on January 13, 2011 2:48AM CST @Button Boy, I am liberal. Are you accusing me of being stifling to conservative speech while I allow pedophiles to post their dangerous spew? Just because ACLU is radical in their BS taking in people. This is the blanket statement type lines that gets me irritated. @MC, Yes, I was being sarcastic with that line about Hitler being a conservative. I'm just getting sick of hearing how "socialism is a liberal idea", that statement is there to say that you can argue it the opposite way. And don't fall into Deo's assumption of who is who... No one has access to my account aside from me, and well, if anyone has a question, they're free to ask me about what I wrote. Posted by: Deo on January 13, 2011 4:36AM CST That I am right! You are a liar I have proven so and you are just having one of your CHILDISH Trantrams because you have been outed! Try keeping your word! If you have something to say don't hide behind your girlfriend! Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 13, 2011 8:05AM CST Lika, I have no idea what you're referring to in your last post. Please help me out here. Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 13, 2011 8:14AM CST Oh, this is beautiful. WE are guilty, but HIS PARENTS are not. Good Lord, how can anyone reason themselves into such an argument? Posted by: Deo on January 13, 2011 11:53AM CST BB - That is what happens when more than one person uses the same account! LOL Lika's last statement to you made no sense what so ever, reads more like one of Euro's rants! Posted by: MC on January 13, 2011 12:35PM CST "@MC, And don't fall into Deo's assumption of who is who... No one has access to my account aside from me, and well, if anyone has a question, they're free to ask me about what I wrote." I think Deo is not suggesting euro is commenting using your name, but that you two confere on a comment before you enter it. Posted by: eurodanceaddict2 on January 13, 2011 3:19PM CST Deo, "That I am right! You are a liar I have proven so and you are just having one of your CHILDISH Trantrams because you have been outed! Try keeping your word! If you have something to say don't hide behind your girlfriend!" I dont hide behind anybody and quite frankly, I didnt even pay attention to your comment to Lika until AFTER SHE pointed out to me your comment. She said "Deo is going to hate me for this" I read your comment then and then HER answer to you. I agreed that you would throw a tantrum about her comment but I never would think in a hundred years that you would say that I answered FOR her. You obviously don't remember how she used to talk to you Conservatives BEFORE I joined this site, do you? She says a light comment and you call it a commanding comment? That's pathetic that you think that way. Last night, Lika said she wasn't going to address you DIRECTLY because she too, thinks your actions, accusations and name calling are pathetic. And NOW you are calling HER a liar too when she says that she is the only one with access to her account and this is also after she has read what the accusation is about. So you are saying that both she and I are "liars". Is it any wonder why I treated you the way I did in the past? I feel sorry for your wife with your disposition. Are you as accusatory towards her everytime you don't like something she does or says? Do yourself a favor and never join a social network. You wouldn't last a week before everybody had you on ignore (blocked). I wouldnt have to worry about coming back here for MY defense you clodhead, it is Lika you are attacking when you say it was me behind those comments. Lika has a mind of her own and would literally BURY you in any public forum without ANY help. I don't see YOU out getting laws into draft stage almost singlehandedly. Lika is NOT a liar and I assure you that it is the one thing that if you were here and said, your teeth would regret it. Now that you have made a total A out of yourself in front of everybody, good luck on your credibility. You couldn't even lift a phone off its cradle and dial 7 digits to talk to Lika and verify because you KNOW you were wrong and now you act like a child because you lost the battle. I STILL have that handkerchief. @MC, No, your theory is wrong: look above in Deo's statement: "BB - That is what happens when more than one person uses the same account! LOL" If HE had just made that assertion , then it wouldn't have been as bad, but still, he isn't MAN enough to call when I gave him the number. If I had a block function here so I would never have to see Deos' clueless rants again, I would use it. Also, about "confering". Lika has a good college education, actually DOES know a lot more than I do about politics and economics. I guess a few missed her comment about that in my last blog. She also knows more about Sexual abuse and anything to do with Medical or advocating issues. I have no problem admitting when somebody knows more than I do, unlike those who call OTHERS liars when they are bested. Lika ALWAYS answers with her OWN thoughts and words. Now I am going back to doing what i was doing before "rude Deo" started fighting unfair. Take care MC and everybody else...(except for Deo). In closing, I DID say what I wanted to say under my OWN profile. I have nothing to fear, YOU ARE A P.SSY!!! Posted by: Gray Kitty on January 13, 2011 4:16PM CST "Do yourself a favor and never join a social network. You wouldn't last a week before everybody had you on ignore (blocked)." Last I noticed this IS a social network and Deo has been around a long time with out any problems. You seem to get your undies in a bundle a lot Euro. Like a kid who just got his lunch money stolen for the upteenth time. lol! Posted by: eurodanceaddict2 on January 13, 2011 4:26PM CST Gray Kitty, This is NOT a social network. I bet there isn't but about 20-30 users in this tiny" forum pretending to be a social network" I am talking about social networks that are not 95% Conservative and a network that has at least a thousand or more ACTIVE bloggers. I notice you support Deo calling Lika names (liar) and its ok with you that he is abusing her character by insinuating that she cant do her own comments. I guess that makes you no better than he. Oh, that's right, YOU accused us both of having phoney accounts, so you ARE the same as Deo. Then you wait until I'm attacked to join in on the bandwagon (mob mentality). How predictable!!! Go play with your kitties. Posted by: Gray Kitty on January 13, 2011 4:32PM CST Calling someone a name like pussy and threating they'd lose their teeth if they spoke directly to you is pretty immature and agressive behavior. I think you have some anger issues and sound about 11 years old. You annoy me worse than anyone here, but you probably get off on that thought so...I'll just blow you off. Posted by: MC on January 13, 2011 5:16PM CST Euro - you just were rude to GK in much the same manner as you accuse others of being rude to Lika. You talk a big story, but you don't live it. You make this blogosphere all about you and Lika which is really getting old. You boast how Lika can hold her own and take care of herself, yet you burst in here to 'defend' her like a big brother. Let her be and FGS let us be. We don't need all your judgements. Posted by: StormyKnight on January 13, 2011 6:32PM CST [peeks in and backs out slowly] lol Posted by: Gray Kitty on January 13, 2011 6:54PM CST You're pretty funny Stormy. Posted by: Edge Distance on January 13, 2011 7:19PM CST This Guy was a kook, nothing more. Since our countries founding, we've always had heated debate. Check out what his best friend in high School had to say. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/report-alleged-arizona-gunman-did-watch-news-television/ Posted by: eurodanceaddict2 on January 13, 2011 7:23PM CST Gray Kitty, yes, I do have anger issues....when people call my fiance a liar when it is unwarranted. I annoy those who annoy me FIRST. Any man that didn't become aggressive in his wife's honor (in person) is a coward and unworthy to have her. MC, there is a BIG difference between what is happening to GK and what is happening to Lika. Lika did NOTHING to be called a liar. GK DID do something to deserve my wrath back, (accusations of fake profiles and supporting Deo calling Lika a liar ). Its cool that you are trying to be a peacemaker in here, but to make that work. Deo needs to either stay silent to me or concede that he was in error about Likas comment. He was wrong about her age, he was wrong about her status as a US Citizen and he was wrong about saying I control her. Now he is wrong about her AGAIN, saying she doesn't write her own comments. Common denominator here? Deo is wrong....A LOT. So you wouldn't defend YOUR wife or fiance with treatment like this? Shaking my head at you. Has this world become so spineless that a man is frowned at for defending his significant other? Now if everybody can just stay silent about me and Lika concerning this issue (Deo accusing), then I will stay gone. Lets see how long Deo can keep his big trap shut. Posted by: Bottom Line on January 13, 2011 11:31PM CST Huck .... I disagree with your position that society is to blame for this behavior, unless you want to include coddling bad behavior. If we were more exact in justice, I suspect much behavior would correct itself. It is true that people on both sides of most debates have contributed to heated rhetoric, but IMO liberals started the landslide by allowing people to do and say very offensive things because it was their right (... ie free speech). The conservatives were the prudes that fought against this behavior (originally), and over time, they too have digressed to go toe to toe with like behavior (hardly laudable, I might add). You are intentionally using this event to take a stab at those you disagree with, but you are being disingenuous when you suggest that it is one group or the other that is responsible. As to the sophomoric blather, that has nothing to do with this posting ..... .... get a life EDA2 .... you manifest the conditions you so staunchly find offense in. From time to time (yet not often), you bring something to the table. Usually, though, you are caught up in your self centered soap opera. I wish Lika well, and her son especially. GK, Deo, MC, and others that have been drawn into dialogue with this adolescent ... please reconsider the importance of addressing anyone that so obviously needs to mature. Posted by: Lika on January 14, 2011 12:56AM CST I usually don't cut/paste, but, here - @ Button Boy, unless I misunderstood, you said: Posted by: ButtonBoy on January 12, 2011 9:32AM CST "Lika, You should know that the left thinks anything goes as far as free speech, no matter how offensive or DANGEROUS, except when it comes to those who criticize THEM. That is the speech they want to stifle." I said "@Button Boy, I am liberal. Are you accusing me of being stifling to conservative speech while I allow pedophiles to post their dangerous spew? J...." Maybe I misunderstood, but I'm just wondering how I, as a liberal who wants to shut down pedophile websites is hindering conservative speech criticizing anything. Posted by: Lika on January 14, 2011 1:08AM CST MC, thanks for trying to explain... Euro and I agree on many things, and we may end up sounding alike in many ways. I may have him proof read some of my comments before I hit post, but it's not to make it sound like his statements... When I'm not feeling well, I have a tendency to leave words out or flip words around to where it doesn't make sense, almost like I have "word dyslexia" in a way. So as to not post something that makes 0 sense, he'll let me know if I forgot to insert something or another. Anyway, other than that, no we don't confer on anything, and if you remember when the elections were in front of us, rather than behind us... I was pretty vehement back then, wasn't I? ;) He is more liberal than I am. And I can be pretty liberal myself, it's just certain issues, I do cross the center line, and others, I'm very centrist... Euro is mostly liberal down the line, he's more or less liberal depending on the issues. Bottom Line, thank you for the blessing. ;) Not to worry, we're actually very stable in our home life, and I am just as active in my son's schooling. I even put in breaks to have some mocha with my son. (Yes, I make my home made version of mocha, not quite like the cafe's, but hey, it works) - and it keeps the day interesting. Posted by: Lika on January 14, 2011 2:08AM CST I'm just wondering though, as to how some accuse Euro of being immature and full of tantrums, yet I see the same people doing the same... I think a few people forgot to bring their "big boy pants"... Posted by: eurodanceaddict2 on January 14, 2011 2:23AM CST Bottom Line, "get a life EDA2 .... you manifest the conditions you so staunchly find offense in." Not THIS time: "Euro is pretending to be Lika!" (Deo's words) is what started this and brought me back in here. I started here in JT blogging because of many Conservatives fighting unfair with Lika. Never have I STARTED it in here, I fight fire WITH fire. "From time to time (yet not often), you bring something to the table. Usually, though, you are caught up in your self centered soap opera." The soap opera is a result of hot headed people who abuse others with blanket statements, etc... If others read what I say CORRECTLY and stopped assuming and if they also stopped stereotyping Liberals, there wouldn't be a problem. "GK, Deo, MC, and others that have been drawn into dialogue with this adolescent ... please reconsider the importance of addressing anyone that so obviously needs to mature." I notice you TOO are enabling Deo's childish behavior. He called me a liar when I told him I wasnt commenting through Likas profile. Not only is THAT childish, but it is also STUPID because he doesnt know. I gave him our phone number to put an end to his nonsense and he chose not to call and called me a liar again. THAT is the childish behavior. Now how did you miss that in the comments Bottom line? Rather than say "ok, I just THOUGHT you 2 sounded too much alike"...he keeps up his usual attitude that he is never wrong and only adding fuel to the fire. Then you and Gray Kitty come in and enable him even further. Just one question for you Bottom Line: Do you EVER think it's a good idea to hold Deo accountable for HIS part in arguments? (especially when he STARTS it) wait, dont answer that..... He is conservative so he MUST BE RIGHT, Aint that about how it works in here? Posted by: Deo on January 14, 2011 3:36AM CST LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What a Loser! Whaa Deo started this He made me LOOK STUPID! And I PROVED Him Right! Just call me so I can have you charged with phone harassment yeah he fall for that NOT! But BL I was having Fun! He is SOOOO easy to prove the Fool it's hard not to bait Him! Clueless too I knew he would take the bait but not Hook, Line and Sinker! Lika - "I'm just wondering though, as to how some accuse Euro of being immature and full of tantrums, yet I see the same people doing the same..." Now you have just made a FALSE statement otherwise know as a LIE! That's right Euro I said it! Lika please show what other bloggers have used the kind of language that Euro has used since coming on the blogs! What bloggers other than my showing the Hypocrisy of the JT for allowing Euro to continue his BLANTANT violation of the rules he DEMANDS others adhere too! Name just ONE who has use the F bomb! One that has made threats to harm! One that called another blogger D*mdsh*t, F*ckhead and now p*ssy! NAME ONE LIKA! I won't be holding my breath because you will not be able too. By the way when Euro starts getting violent with you and he will his posting show he isn't balanced take some advice and get out! Posted by: eurodanceaddict2 on January 14, 2011 4:13AM CST Deo, you are PATHETIC, Now you are trying to tell my fiance to leave me? You are dumber than I originally thought. And no she is not wrong, your comment right above this one is a tantrum. When you think you have the right to ask somebody to leave their spouse, you are out of bounds...got it? You weren't trying to bait anybody,you just couldn't handle that Lika wasn't being nicey nice to you for once. As far as using profanity, you used it right back REPEATEDLY to mock the JT and by your own admission. I am through with you, circus clown. Guess what? Now that you cant be a good boy, I will continue to post here when I see an interesting subject. I thought I would leave to give you time to see that Lika wont always play by YOUR rules and now you have failed to take it like a man. I wont do you any favors by staying gone. I also will ignore any of your replies to MY comments because you have proven that your show size is your IQ AND your emotional IQ as well. @Huck, I am saving this entire blog and all of its contents for further use in the future when Deo tries to play all smart with any new users. It will ruin his credibility when I email the comments to them so they wont take him seriously. That's one victory accomplished. Thank you for this venue to accomplish it in. Posted by: Deo on January 14, 2011 4:36AM CST Wow He stays up all night waiting in the tall grass for me to post. Someone has some serious issues! Does the word stalker fit? Boy your going to copy this blog to show other if Deo tries to pull anything LOL "I wont do you any favors by staying gone." NO Please Stay! I need a good laugh at night. Reading your post is the best enterainment I get all night. I didn't follow your rules so you don't have to keep your word LOL Here's your sign. Sorry BL He makes it so EASY to mock him, I can't help but make him look the fool! Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 14, 2011 7:53AM CST Actually, I am wondering whether or not to weigh in on this, and I'll probably regret it, but here goes anyway. First of all, I have to admit that those four or five long posts by Lika on January 12 made me wonder if they were written by Euro. To me, they sounded more like Euro than Lika, or maybe a composite. I immediately thought that, without any other blogger suggesting it, so I can understand why others felt the same way. Secondly, Euro, I am addressing you personally....you are not helping yourself by such an extreme reaction to such a harmless accusation. All the swearing, threats, and over the top imagery and language is like using an atomic bomb to kill a mosquito. Come on, guy. You don't need to do this to make a point. All you have to do is either deny the accusation or ignore it. If you say you weren't posting as Lika, then I believe you, even if I had my suspicions. The last time you went on a rant like this, when you first came on this site, you later said you went over the top on purpose to protect Lika. And now you are saying that again. Nobody said anything about Lika doing something wrong. If we thought you were posting as her, it was YOU who was doing something not quite right. So you are in essence defending YOURSELF, not her. Also, over the last few months, I have developed respect for Lika and her viewpoints. I don't always agree with everything she says, but we have managed always to keep our differences cordial, and informative. It has also occurred to me more than once that perhaps this could be a mesalliance for her, because you seem to react so violently to some of the smallest things. However, this is REALLY none of my business, except as I said, Lika has become a sort of a blog friend and I wouldn't want her to be hurt, and I wouldnt bring it up at all if the subject had not already been broached. Anyway, I am writing this to you in the spirit of an older person who has maybe seen a little more life than you, and I do hope that you take this post to heart, because I mean it to be a small piece of good advice (to maybe think twice before you write) given in the very kindest of motives, I assure you. Posted by: MC on January 14, 2011 2:13PM CST "I am saving this entire blog and all of its contents for further use in the future when Deo tries to play all smart with any new users." Euro - do you mean like what you just recently did with you 'hit piece' about Deo you addressed to GC? "So you wouldn't defend YOUR wife or fiance with treatment like this? Shaking my head at you" Sounds like you have determined my answer for me euro. Guess you think you know other people better than they know themselves. Well, you don't. Posted by: eurodanceaddict2 on January 14, 2011 2:58PM CST DDD, Thank you and I agree with you,,,,,totally. I DO lose my head when people attack Lika and her credibility. The fact that I am marrying her should be a clue to many that I am going to be overprotective. This isn't the first time I have done this. The other social network I was on, I got the same reaction when I defended her. I still don't understand why its wrong to defend your significant other. I do respect you a lot DDD and its because you have shown OBJECTIVE reactions to my rants and indiscretions now and in the past. I do think its your business too because you have to see the arguments in here so it does affect you too. I will say this ONCE. I have NEVER written from Lika's account nor have I had her "write what I say". We all have our good sides and I do too. Lika has already made her reference in here that she and I think a LOT alike and that's part of the reason we are getting married. I will just ignore any further attacks on Lika or her character and "consider the source". My opinion is that ANYBODY that has a problem with Lika, has a TERRIBLE disposition. We talked last night and only three people on here are like that. 2 don't comment all of the time and one is ALWAYS commenting. I think we know who that is. MC, Fair enough and I will add that Lika and I BOTH like you and yes, we have had our arguments, but we both agree that you always do a "save" and/or you always seem to know just when to be diplomatic and keep us liking you. In the future, it would help if when you witness me starting to go on a rant that seems like its going to get personal to just say something like "remember what DDD said?" Posted by: DobberDeeDee on January 14, 2011 3:12PM CST Euro, bravo to you for taking my well meant advice and for not being upset by my interference. I do think you will live a happier life, which is all to the good. That is my hope for both you and Lika, and of course, your son. Posted by: MC on January 14, 2011 5:18PM CST "but we both agree that you always do a "save" and/or you always seem to know just when to be diplomatic and keep us liking you." That's my goal here - to keep you two liking me. :)